Backup10 Summary of OverSeaWikia



Case 7 [Mikufan.com] This is the page for collecting information related to (Mikufan.com) case. （このページは、(Mikufan.com)に関する情報をまとめるページです. ）

This page is under construaction. (このページは現在作成中です. )自由に改変して使用してください. Please add the new information if you find.

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Protection of creative environment of Vocaloid works including "Chain of Creation".

ボーカロイドに関する、創作環境を守り整え、 創作の輪を含めた

Main short massage: (version3)

We are NOT asking to recover deleted videos.

We are asking to help investigation and studying quietly, but continuously.

You can think,investigate and study quietly to discover what is going on.

The anti-Korean activists are also using SAVE MIKU project. Thus, do NOT respond.

One of the Goal is added "Collaboration on Vocaloid work between Japan and the West."

Please check our Website for update information.

Please help us to Improve English of our Website and some other.

Simple Summary of our message in English (version3)

We are announcing again since there are too many mis-understanding regarding SAVE MIKU project. We have changed the direction just after initial promotion in February. We are NOT asking to recover deleted videos. We are asking to help investigation and studying quietly. You can think,investigate and study quietly to discover what is going on. One of the Goal is added "Collaboration on Vocaloid work between Japan and the West." .

We found that anti-Korean activists are also using SAVE MIKU project to promote their anti-Korean campaign. We are asking NOT to stimulate NOR respond the anti-Korean activists who are sitting in the comment place of the YouTube video of SAVE MIKU. Thus, please try to discuss more detailed topics of Vocaloid with other Vocaloid fan in order to reduce the intention of anti-Korean activists.

Propose of the initial message was only inform to other person that "mysterious deletion has been happening". The initial aim to tell about deletion of videos seems successful. However, responses were too aggressive from oversea sometime. Therefore, we shifted more mildly as written in Temporary Japanese Menu and Save Miku Overseas Wiki. During our investigation and studying, many thing has been discovered as written in summary and others.

It was found that more than 80-90% of the Vocaloid video in YouTube is copied and re-uploaded from Nico Nico Video without permission form the Original Producer. Since many original Producer of video did not interested in recovering the deleted video, we changed the direction. We started to inform and study how to prevent or reduce unwanted copying.

We started to help getting permission from the original Producers. Many Producers seems  expecting some kind of contact  even  After  secondary use of the video. It seems better to say hi, if you are using for secondary use. It may also fine to confirm in order to check English translation of lyric. It was discovered that there are many mis-translation in the video. It was realized that translation of lyric is translation of poem. Thus, It is very difficult. It was found that English translator did not understand the meaning of Japanese lyric.

We also started to investigate if false claimer may targeted to bad and mis-translation as written in summary. We are now studying and investigating how to improve Vocaloid related environment.  Please Stop posting and using “Save Miku” at the time of copying and re-uploading video without permission.

We also develop the special method to check all Vocaloid videos in YouTube everyday. Due to Daily Check of Vocaloid video and precaution with everyone, deletion of the additional video has been stabilized. If you find additional deleted video, please contact us and leave some comment in the Wiki. We are also discussing and investigating every day to find the evidence related to the mysterious video deletion.

It is very helpful that if someone can check English to improve our writing such as written in this Website since we don't have enough person to do. It is also helpful to translate our main message into other language.

In order to promote the INVESTIGATION, we made some illustration.

Let's Investigate to SAVE MIKU.

Investigate to SAVE MIKU

I SAVE MIKU

It include You/we can investigate, think and study quietly to discover what is going on.

It include please stop fighting. You can see the smile of Miku. You can also add the meaning if you find.

You can download the original files in Piapro to use the illustration.

One of the Goal is added "Collaboration on Vocaloid work between Japan and the West." as written in main menu.

Background, Summary and Future Aim (Construction)
Propose of the initial message from our previous staff was only informing to other person. Main message was "mysterious deletion has been happening". Initial aim of Project Save Miku was telling about deletion of videos in YouTube. It seems successful to announce. However, responses were too aggressive from oversea sometime. Therefore, we shifted more gently as written in New Objective+Message, Temporary Japanese Menu and Save Miku Overseas Wiki. For the initial step, we started INVESTIGATION first. We are still in this process.

Initially, Project Save Miku was not idealy supported by Original Producer of videos. It was found that many/most video in YouTube are copied and re-uploaded without permission from original Producer. It was found that many original Producer did not want copying and re-uploading video without permission. It also depend on individual Producer. Many Producers seems  expecting some kind of contact  even  After  secondary use of the video. It was discovered that it seems better to say hi, if you are using video for secondary use.

It seems important to leave the way to contact from Original Producer to secondary user (such as E-mail, Twitter, or Facebook).  Original Producer may want to say Hi, thank you, or comment  at later for feedback. They seems expecting what kind of secondary creation is done for fun. However,  if Producer release the record from major record company, the condition may become different  depend on Producer and record company.

====Of course, there are many problems remain, chain of secondary creation seems relatively conserved in Nico NIco Douga/Video in Japan. However, it seems not well established enough within YouTube, between YouTube and NicoNico Douga, and during the English translation. Many original Producers of vocaloid videos did not interested in recovering re-uploaded video in YouTube. Thus, '''we changed the direction. We started to inform and study how to prevent or reduce unwanted copying also.''' ==== It was found that some deleted account may copied and re-uploaded 100-1000 videos from Nico Nico Douga.

During the investigation, it was started to find that translation of video from Japanese to English may have problems. It was found that relatively large amount of mis-translation may be occurring. It was realized that translation of lyric is translation of poem. Thus, It is very difficult. Translation of poem is highly difficult than normal translation of books or text.

It was found that English translator did not understand the meaning of Japanese lyric before translation. Some awful translation were occurred according to other site, user and Producer. Translator changed the meaning opposite during the Japanese lyric interpretation. English translator changed the meaning of lyric during the mis-translation. They only translated one sentence each time;but, did not fit the meaning of entire lyric enough. There is a few excellent translator also.

According to Japanese Producer and translator, it is very important to  think several sentences (phrase)  since the meaning of Japanese word can be sometime taken by several meaning within   several sentences (phrase) . There are comment that when Enｇlish user learned simple conversation of Japanese, English user thought they already learned enough, then they started to translate, and then awful mis-translation may happen. Japanese translator is also telling that since lyric is poet, it is relatively difficult to translate, compare to normal Japanese. They are also telling that if a English translator can not write Japanese (by hand writing), it is not proper level to do translation of lyric.

Sometime, English translator may using automatic translation by using computer, such as Google translation. Several Japanese translators asked for the improvement/correction of words in the translated video site in YouTube. However, several English user may ignored. Then, we started to investigate if mysterious deletion may be initially targeted to unwanted or bad translation also. There is minor comment, claimer SASA-X-JUN may only targeted to the account of worse translation with bad attitude.

According to some Japanese translator of lyric, if an English user started to understand Japanese, the English user become happy. Then, an English user try to do translation from Japanese video even language level is not enough. If the translation is used in English video even bad translation, the translator become happy. Most of international fan does not understand mis-translation. Then, if international fan like the video music, translator may think it is OK. English translator continue to translate lyric of other songs without negative feedback of bad translation.

It was also reported that in the case of Fansub of animation, native Japanese and English speaker are double checking for translation. Then, the quality of translation maybe relatively high.

It was started to discovered that original Producer of the video may have right to change the unwanted translation of the lyric. However, many English translated video may not have permission for translation. Thus, it may better to make the way of contact with Original Producer and translator.

Most/Many of the English translated video was uploaded without permission (or without contact) from Original Producers. It seems no significant contact to Original Producer yet at the time of translation and re-uploading. Thus, we needed to change the direction of Save Miku Project to fit the opinion of original Producer.  We change the direction to investigate first instead of asking to recover video .

Protection of Vocaloid video is not only the way to Save Miku.  Protection of creative environment is also important according to creator and Producer regarding Save Miku to produce new video and secondary work. Where to upload is the only one of the actual right for minor/introductory Producer, according to P. Proper secondary use and protection of the chain of creation may also Save Miku.

======

We started to check most of Vocaloid video in YouTube almost  EVERYDAY  as partly written in Daily Check of Deleted Video. We developed some process to check most Vocaloid video in YouTube. This Daily Check of Video may became strong force to mysterious claimer. However, we lost manpower more that 70% after initial 1.5 months. But, we could not ask to join if we don't know the person's background or opinion enough since it may possible that anti-miku fan and anti-Korean activist may be included in investigation. ''' Thus, we still need help very much. '''

Meanwhile, translation of Japanese into English is started to help international user, Japanese Producer, and Fandom. During the investigation and studying, it was found that many regulation and guides are written in Japanese. It was not translated into English. We also started to ask original Producer to submit the permission condition for secondary use of video. Statements from producers and copyright holders is started to make.

One of the Goal is added "Collaboration on Vocaloid work between Japan and the West.". In order to find more interesting topics for Original Producer and Vocaloid Fan, sub topics were under discussion slowly. (Project Miku etc, Community is still under discussion and construction slowly.)

It is under investigation by Miku fan volunteers. It is advisable to confirm the permission from Original Producer. ''' At least, it may better to say hi and leave contact way from Producer.  It may also  important to do proper refer  of original creation  including URL '''.

We found [anti-Korean activist, spammer, anti-Japan activist, fake Japanese who is acting as Japanese to make bad impression] may trying to use Vocaloid from February 2012. It was discovered that the anti-Korean activists are also using SAVE MIKU project to promote their campaign. We are asking NOT to stimulate NOR respond the anti-Korean activists who are sitting in the comment place of the YouTube video as written separately. Thus, please try to discuss more detailed topics of Vocaloid with other Vocaloid fan in order to reduce the intention of anti-Korean activists. They may made more than 1000 spams to our related sites before.

Then, MikuFan.com wrote the following articles and started the campaign to Stop Posting "Save Miku" without asking us and without knowing us enough including our Website. They thought problems are almost solved, nothing is happening and no one is doing about Save Miku Project. They thought Vocaloid fan are blaming each other in the comment of YouTube. They probably didn't know about anti-Korean activists. They may started Stop Posting "Save Miku" campaign with wrong or inaccurate information.

Thus, we have to investigate this case7 as [MikuFan.com] for about 1 month by using many man power. They actually stop other investigation and studying by taking time too much. We still don't have enough time to make our wiki sites due many other activities. Please see followings for more detail : Case7 mikufan.com [Is information from MikuFan.com correct and accurate about Save Miku?]

During the heavy sapm attack (more than 1000 spams) to several sites, we lost Wiki sites .Since there were too much spam attack to other site, we were not possible to spread the URL of new Website widly the same as initial website. However, we are within top 1-3 of Google search by typing keyword "save miku".

If you are visiting this site, please add comment in following page also, to say Hi.

Background, Brief Summary and Future Aim (Construction)Edit
Propose of the initial message from our previous staff was only inform to other person that "mysterious deletion has been happening". Initial aim of Project Save Miku to tell about deletion of videos in YouTube seems successful. However, responses were too aggressive from oversea sometime. Therefore, we shifted more mildly as written in Temporary Japanese Menu and Save Miku Overseas Wiki. For the initial step, we started INVESTIGATION first. We are still in this process.

Initially, Project Save Miku was not idealy supported by Original Producer of videos. It was found that many Original Producer did not want copying and re-uploading video without permission depen on Producer. Many Producers seems  expecting some kind of contact  even  After  secondary use of the video. It seems better to say hi, if you are using for secondary use. It seems important leave the way to contact from Original Producer if they wanted to comment at later. They seems expecting what kind of secondary creation is done for fun. However, if Producer relase the record from record company, the condition may become different depend on Producer.

Of course, there are many problems remain, chain of secondary creation seems relativery conserved in Nico NIco Douga in Japanese. However, it seems not well established enough within YouTube, between YouTube and NicoNico Douga and during the English translation. Many original Producers of vocaloid videos did not interested in recovering re-uploaded video in YouTube. Thus, '''we changed the direction. We started to inform and study how to prevent or reduce unwanted copying.'''

During the studying, it was started to find that translation of video from Japanese to English may have problems. It was found that relatively large amount of mis-translation may be occurring. There were some awful translation according to other site, user and Producer. English translator changed the meaning of lyric during the mis-translation. They only translated one sentence each time;but, did not fit the meaning of entire lyric enough. According to Japanese Producer and translator, it is very important to  think several sentences (phrase)  since Japanese word can be sometime taken by several meaning whithin   several sentences (phrase) .

Sometime, English translator may using automatic translation by using computer, such as Google translation. Several Japanese translators asked for the improvement/correction of words in the translated video site of English user's in YouTube. However, several English user may ignored. We started to investigate if mysterious deletion may be initially targeted to unwanted or bad translation also.

Most/Many of the English translated video was uploaded without permission (or without contact ) from Original Producers. It seems no significant contact to Original Producer yet at the time of translation and re-uploading. Thus, we needed to change the direction of Save Miku Project to fit the opinion of original Producer.  We change the direction to investigate first instead of asking to recover video .

Thus, Protection of Vocaloid video is not only the way to Save Miku. Protection of creative environment is also important according to creator and Producer regarding Save Miku to produce new video and secondary use. Where to upload is the only one of the actual right for minor/introductory Producer, according to P. Proper secondary use and protection of the chain of creation may also Save Miku.

We also started to check most of all video of Vocaloid in YouTube  EVERYDAY  as partly written in Daily Check of Deleted Video. This Daily Check of Video may became strong force to mysterious claimer. However, we lost manpower more that 70% after initial 1.5 months. But, we could not ask to join if we did not know the person's background or opinion enogh since it may possible that anti-miku fan and anti-Korean activist may be included in investigation. ''' Thus, we still need help very much. '''

Meanwhile, translation of Japanese into English is started to help international user, Japanese Producer, and Fan. During the investigation and studying, it was found that many regulation and guides are written in Japanese, but, not translated into English. We also started to asked original Producer for the permission condition for secondary use of video. Statements from producers and copyright holders is started to make.

One of the Goal is added "Collaboration on Vocaloid work between Japan and the West." as written in Temporary Japanese Menu and some other. In order to find more interesting topics for Original Producer and Vocaloid Fan, sub topics were under discussion slowly. (Project Miku etc, Community is still under discussion and construction slowly.)

It is under investigation by Miku fan volunteers. Even deleted video maybe going to recover, it is advisable to confirm the permission from Original Producer. ''' At leaset, it may better to say hi and leave contact way from Producer.  It may also  important to do proper refer ''' of original creation including URL.

Then, MikuFan.com wrote the following articles and started the campaign to STOP Save Miku project without asking us, because they thought problems are almost solved and several other reasons. Then, we have to investigate this case7 as [MikuFan.com] for about 1 month by using many man power. They actually stop other investigation and studying by taking time too much. We still don't have enogh time to make our wiki sites. Please see followings for more detail : Case7 mikufan.com

However, during the heavy sapm attack (more than 1000 spams) to several sites, we lost wiki sites.Since there were too much spam attack to other site, we were not possible to spread the URL of new Website widly the same as initial website. However, we are within top 1-3 under Google search by typing keyword "save miku".

If you are visiting this site, please add comment in following page also, to say Hi. ====Discussion in basic English 【英語初級で雑談&相談】Pさんも是非'】⇔Visit FirstEdit====

{C}TopPage - (2012/02/06 (月)

Someone who doesn't like to see Hatsune Miku gaining worldwide popularity has been going around submitting false copyright claims to take down high-ranked Miku videos from Youtube.

We don't know who is doing this, but they are specifically targeting videos with English titles that are popular among non-Japanese viewers. It's possible that more than one person is behind these false claims. Miku fans are currently investigating this. If one of your videos has been taken down because of a false copyright claim, you can submit a counter-notification here. YouTube Copyright Center: http://www.youtube.com/t/copyright_center If your counter-notification is accepted, the video will be restored with the number of views and comments intact. To all Vocaloid fans: let's get our Miku back. Don't give up. Please note that we do not intend to encourage the unauthorized copying of videos. A separate discussion on this topic is still ongoing. (Message in Japanese) 初音ミクが世界で人気になることが気に入らない何者かが 彼女の英語タイトル付の人気動画を削除しています 偽の著作権侵害通報をすることによって. 誰がこれを行っているかはわかりません. その一連の行動は組織化された集団によるものかもしれません. 現在ミクファンの有志によって調査中です. もしあなたの動画が偽の通報により削除されたら 次のリンク先より異議申し立てができます. http://www.youtube.com/t/copyright_center 異議が認められれば再生回数やコメントとともに動画は復活します. 全てのボーカロイドファンへ、彼女を取り戻しましょう. 諦めないでください. 無断転載を奨めているわけではありません. 無断転載への対処については別個議論が進められています

TopPage」の（バックアップ）

TopPage - (2012/02/09 (木) 04

-Recently, someone has been making applications for deletion of a lot of Hatsune Miku videos on Youtube. -A significant number of videos have been already deleted. -We do not know who is doing this. -As this is happening on a massive scale, it is likely that an organized group or several groups are behind this. +**[ SITUATION 事態 ] +Recently, some anonymous person (or group) has been making false reports of copyright infringement to YouTube, to delete many Hatsune Miku videos on Youtube. A significant number of videos have already been deleted, while the exact number cannot be told, due to the fact that deleted videos or suspended user accounts literally "vanish" from the web after a certain period of time of being deleted or suspended. -It is under investigation by Miku fan volunteers. -We are working hard to get to the bottom of this case. +Because YouTube deletes any video that has collected three (3) copyright claims, regardless of how legitimate those claims are, this anonymous person or group seems to have taken such YouTube's behavior to his or its advantage. &u{He or it has been making copyright claims to YouTube that are completely bogus!} {C}+(Note: YT simply never dares to read the actual content of copyright claims that are filed to them. They don't check claims' authenticity at all.) {C}-The reason why they were deleted is that they have "an infringement of copyright". {C}-However, We think there is a suspicion of injustice because we see some doubtful points about the applicants and the reason they claim. {C}+However at this moment, we at this wikisite, do not know who is doing this, or why that person or group is doing this. As this is happening on a massive scale, an organized group or several groups may be behind this. {C}+ {C}+ {C}+**[ HOW FU%&ED UP THE DELETIONS ARE 削除の不当性 ] {C}+It must be noted firmly that it is practically impossible for any ordinary YouTube user to infringe the copyright of Miku or other Vocaloid materials by uploading videos that feature their songs, motions, or pictures. The following are concrete facts as to the handling of copyright in the community of Vocaloid composers, creators, and producers. {C}+ {C}+1) The legitimate copyright holders of Vocaloid songs, such as ToysFactory, in fact DO NOT allow replication of copyright-protected songs or materials. But no, the mass deletion has been caused by some scambag or some scambag group other than those righteous copyright holders!! {C}+ {C}+2) It is Crypton's policy to promote User Generated Media (UGM) or Consumer Generated Contents (CGC) by allowing anyone to use other people's creations, as long as (a) those "borrowers" get in agreement with the original creators as to the replication or modification, and (b) the replicated or modified songs, artworks, or texs remain not-for-profit. + +3) The majority of "other" or individual copyright holders, namely the song composers (or "Ps" as in "producers") and video creators, remain silent about whether or not they allow free and uncontrolled replications of their materials through fan uploads, fansubs, fandubs, and mash-ups. Some of them may be intentionally keeping their mouths shut for the purpose of promoting UGM/CGC, while others may simply have not given any thoughts about what to think of unauthorized fan translations and uploads, or simply do not know where to express such thoughts, even if they had any. However, it is very much worth noting that NONE of them has clearly stated that they wish to prohibit fan creations or uploads. + + +**[ ISSUES 問題意識 ] +TBA + + +**[ POLICY STATEMENT 対応方針 ] +While it is tempting to investigate this case to chase down the culprit, we at this site decided that our first and utmost job to save our diva princess is to contain the further inappropriate deletions. + + +**[ ISSUES THIS SITE DOES NOT DEAL WITH このウィキでは割愛する問題 ] +TBA If it is wrongful request, we have a possibility to resurrect our videos which have once disappeared by formal objections. http://www.youtube.com/t/copyright_center To all Vocaloid fans: let's get our Miku back. Please never give up. -Please note that we do not intend to encourage the unauthorized copying of videos. -A separate discussion on this topic is still ongoing. -We'd just like to do something to prevent videos from deletion that has been happening now in a great scale. {C}+ {C}+**[ MISCELLANEOUS (But Important) ご注意 ] {C}+Please note that we at this wikisite do not intend to encourage unauthorized copying of songs or videos created by the righteous copyright holders. A separate discussion on this topic is ongoing at a different website. At this wikisite, we'd just like to take actions to prevent Miku's videos from deletions that have been happening now on a great scale. + (Message in Japanese) 何者かが 世界中の多数の初音ミクの動画を削除申請しており、 既にかなりの数の動画が削除されてしまいました. 誰がこれを行っているかはわかりません. かなり大きな規模で行われていることから、背後に何らかの組織がいる可能性があります. 現在ミクファンの有志によって調査中です. 私たちはこの事件の真相を究明するために一生懸命に動いています. 削除の理由は「著作権侵害」となっています. しかしながら、この申請者や申請理由には不審な点があるように見受けられ、不当である疑いがあります. 著作権侵害が不当な申し立てであるならば、異議申し立てによって 削除された動画を復活させることができるかもしれません. http://www.youtube.com/t/copyright_center 全てのボーカロイドファンへ、彼女を取り戻しましょう. 決して諦めないでください. ※無断転載を奨めているわけではありません. 無断転載への対処については別個議論が進められています 私達はただ動画が大量に削除されるのを防ぐ手段を講じたいと思っています※